The Real Rich Mullins, Shameless Namedropping and the Cult of Personality

The only saint in our family, plus Jess, Wayne, and I
The only saint in our family, plus Jess, Wayne, and I

 

This morning I got up, got all the critters fed, and sat down to check my e-mail. Oddly, there were new comments on a post I wrote about my brother Rich Mullins a while back. When I checked the stats on my blog, that post had gotten over 200 views today. Now, that particular post has always been by far the most popular post I’ve ever written, which frankly is a little frustrating because I feel like I’ve written some pretty good posts that had absolutely nothing to do with him (of course, I could be wrong. It happens).

At one point, I had even considered just putting his name in the title of every post, just to try to get people to read my blog, but decided that would be taking shameless cynicism too far, even for me. I would also like to point out, at this point, that there is a point to this post that does actually have something to do with him (also, are there bonus points for getting the word “points” into one sentence multiple times, and if so, do parenthetical “points” count?), so don’t panic. This is merely the Shameless Namedropping bit. I like to ease into these things.

At any rate, I’ve gotta say thanks to all those who commented, both here and on the Facebook. They were all very nice. A couple of people even accused me of profundity, something that would make pretty much everyone who knows me laugh (I know it made me laugh). I am known for a lot of things, mostly involving bad temper and disgusting bodily functions, so it was nice to be considered profound for a change, no matter how far off-base it may be.

Even though the remarks were all nice and complimentary, I still found them disturbing to a certain extent. One of them invited me to join a Rich Mullins group on the Facebook (of which there are at least eight). This seems weird to me. Of course, it is also extremely gratifying, to know that he had, and continues to have, such an impact on people’s lives. However, I’ve got to ask, at what point does all this fan-girling (sorry, but it seems a lot like Tiger Beat for Christians) become kind of Idol Worshippy?

Now I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with fan pages, or sharing your admiration/fanship of somebody with like-minded people. Far from it. However, I do think it’s something that we all need to be careful about. This has been bothering me for a while, but one of the commenters kind of brought it all home for me. This person wrote that in all the videos of Rich, he was “always clean and usually upbeat”, but the movie “Ragamuffin” portrayed him as “looking pretty bad, and usually in a kind of downer mood, or like there was a cloud over him.  Any problems Rich had, aren’t talked about out there.  So I feel like someone is being deceptive.”

I think the simplest way to address this is to tackle the four different points separately:

First:

The way he seems in the videos: He was the way he seems in the videos; smart, caring, sensitive, intellectual, spiritual, funny, and clean. But you also have to understand that in those videos, he was onstage. He was at work. How many of us are the same at work and at home? A large part of a job is image, whether you’re a rock star, or a Walmart greeter. You’re expected to look a certain way, to act a certain way, to talk a certain way. There are things you are supposed to do, and things you’re not allowed to do. I’m no authority on Rich Mullins, I pretty much only knew Wayne, but I know he struggled with that “Image” thing a lot. I remember him complaining that the record company was always trying to get him to lose weight, dress a certain way, wear his hair a certain way, etc., and he found it very disingenuous. Rich Mullins’ “job”, to him, was pointing people toward God. His job, according to the record company was to sell records and make money. Sadly, it seems like, to way too many people, his job is to be a kind of substitute Messiah, a kind of, “Well, I know he’s not Jesus, but he’ll do until the real one comes back,” kind of thing. Again, I’m not accusing you, or anybody, but I’m pretty sure you know somebody like this. Think about it.

Second:

The way he seems in the movie: He was the way he seems in the movie. First, of course, you have to realize that IT WAS A MOVIE! It was an attempt to tell forty-some years of one man’s life in two hours. I don’t want to say that parts of it were made up, but PARTS OF IT WERE MADE UP! That in itself does not make it untruthful. The bits that were “made up” were representative of actual events compressed into a form that made narrative sense, just like some of the characters were composites of multiple people. Think of it like this: Take a drop of water. Try looking at it atom by atom. It doesn’t look anything like a drop of water. If, however, you step back and look at all those atoms collectively, it’s a drop of water. The job of the movie was to show you the drop of water, not it’s atomic composition. I hope that makes sense.

As far as the difference between Rich in the movie and Rich in the videos, that was a decision arrived at early on, by both our family and David Leo Schultz, the director. None of us were interested in making a movie that glorified Rich Mullins. Now a movie that did that would probably have made a whole lot more money (and frankly, in my weaker moments, when I’m worrying about the car payment or the property taxes, I wish it’s the movie Schultz had made), but it would have been antithetical to his whole life. As stated earlier, I really believe that he believed his job was in pointing people toward heaven, and he tried to do just that. We all wanted the movie to try to do the same. Schultz could have painted him as some kind of saint, kind of a Christian Yoda who’s got it all figured out, but that movie would have only glorified Rich, and Rich would have hated that (of course, he probably would have loved it too). Schultz took a braver approach: to show the other side, the private side. The side that only a few ever saw. I almost said were privileged to see, but frankly, there were a lot of times when it was no privilege, I’m sure. The movie Schultz made shows him as we all are; flawed, fallible, and frequently a complete asshole, but a complete asshole who never stopped loving God, who never stopped trying to please God. His struggle was not with God, but with himself, just like the rest of us. If you want the squeaky-clean, family-friendly Rich Mullins, watch the videos. If you want a man who accomplished remarkable things through the grace of God, in spite of his own shortcomings, who struggled daily, just like you and I, then watch the movie. If you really want to get to know him, watch them both.

I guess the best way to put it came from Rich himself. He once said something along the lines of, and I’m paraphrasing from memory here (I’m sure many of you are more familiar with it than I am), “People talk about how open I am, how I say just what I think. If they knew what I’m really thinking they’d say ‘Oh man, we gotta burn this guy’.” Feel free to correct this version.

Third:

Rich’s problems aren’t talked about: No kidding. Nobody wants to take potshots at RICH MULLINS! He’s our hero! In fact, I know that Dave Schultz has gotten some pretty incendiary hate mail for even attempting to show him as flawed. Listen, you want to know what problems Rich Mullins had? Look in the mirror. He had all the same problems you and I have. It wasn’t his problems that were extraordinary, it was his life. His problems and flaws, for the most part, were pretty mundane. He was poor, he was lonely, he had weaknesses and flaws, just like everyone who ever walked the face of the earth, except One.

Fourth:

Somebody’s being deceptive: Simply put, no one is being deceptive. First of all, deception requires intent and there is normally something to be gained through the deception. The videos are amateur videos of a man at work. They don’t purport to represent every facet of the man. If you think they do, then the mistake is yours. Nobody gains anything from posting them. The movie was professionally made and expensive. The approach was intentional. Schultz is not a stupid man. If he wanted to be deceptive, then he would have made a movie that would make money. Instead, he made a movie that glorified God rather than Rich Mullins, a movie that, instead of making people say, “OOOOH, that Rich Mullins! What a great Christian!” tried to make you say, “Okay, I’m not the only one who’s screwed up. God loved him, I’ll bet he loves me too.” Plus, I’m not even sure they’ve broken even yet.

The Difference:

The difference between the popular perception of RICH MULLINS! and the reality of Rich Mullins can best be seen, I think, by looking at one of his most popular songs, “Awesome God”.

Here is the song’s lyrics as he wrote and performed them:

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain’t just putting on the ritz
(Our God is an awesome God)
There’s thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fists
(Our God is an awesome God)
And the Lord wasn’t joking when
He kicked ’em out of Eden
It wasn’t for no reason that He
she’d His blood
His return is very close and so
you better be believing that
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

And when the sky was starless
In the void of the night
(Our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness
And created the light
(Our God is an awesome God)
The judgement and wrath He
poured out on Sodom
The mercy and grace He gave
us at the cross
I hope that we have not too
quickly forgotten that
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God (God)
He reigns (He reigns…) from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God (Our God is an awesome God)
He reigns from heaven above (He reigns from heaven above)
With wisdom, power, and love (With wisdom, power, and love)
Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God

Read more: Rich Mullins – Awesome God Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Now here is the version we sing in church:

Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power, and love
Our God is an awesome God

See the difference? The version we sing is like the perception of RICH MULLINS!; Powerful, true, and above all, simple. The version he wrote is more like Rich Mullins; still powerful and true, but also awkward, kind of weird, thought- and question-provoking, and, I think, fairly deep, juxtaposing God’s vengeance with his Grace.

In contrast, the church version is just a mantra; essentially repetitive and hypnotic, requiring no thought at all, all too often just a mindless parroting of a slogan. Sure it sounds great, but there’s nothing there that isn’t said in a thousand other hymns.

I’m not saying that one is better than the other (for my part, I cringe at the thought of either version), but if I have to choose, I choose the one that makes me think.

Finally:

This brings me back around to my original point: the Cult of Personality. It seems like people may be taking RICH MULLINS! way too seriously. The fact that he was deeply flawed should not detract from our opinion of him, or what he had to say. Our opinion of him is a matter of complete inconsequence. If we say we are Christians, then the only person we should be fan-girling over is Jesus Christ.

OOPS!

Well now . . . that got a little preachy, didn’t it? Sorry. Sometimes I get a little carried away. I trust you’ll all have the good sense not to take anything I had to say too personally, or too seriously. To any of you who managed to slog all the way through this: Thank You! And now you know why I have no reputation for profundity.

171 thoughts on “The Real Rich Mullins, Shameless Namedropping and the Cult of Personality

  1. Lloyd…thank you for sharing what needed to be said and having the courage to say it. I can only imagine how crazy it is for your family dealing with this stuff. I am not one to be starstruck. .I mean I COULD just totally flip out because I’m posting on the blog of Rich Mullins’ brother….or I can just be thankful that Lloyd shared a piece of his heart that encouraged me. I choose the latter. Thank you for being bold.

  2. Thanks for posting this.
    Sort of inclined to disagree with the idea that glorifying him would’ve made more money. There are enough Christian movies like that, and they’re usually crap. Big appeal for me is Schultz’s honesty.
    Also, as a single guy who worked with Native American kids and who feels like I’m never getting anything in life right, it was nice to know a flawed guy who struggled with depression could make a positive and lasting impact.

    1. I agree with you that they’re crap, but I believe they’re crap that makes money. I’m also with you on preferring Schultz’s way. I also work with Native kids (and adults), and know how hard it is. Thanks for your work and thanks for reading!

  3. The Rich I remember is the one who stood in our living room and taught Steve to play one of his songs, and always showed us kindness and encouragement when he would hear us play our dulcimers, however bad we were. Dear to our hearts, as his brother and Jess are, not for who he was, but, for WHO he was.

  4. Rich’s songs brought me closer to Jesus. Seen him in concert twice 92 and 96 I was in the nose bleed section. I first heard of him when we sang Awesome God in the youth choir on Youth Sunday at church. The book “An Arrow Pointing to Heaven” was a good book that should read along with “Ragamuffin Gospel”.

  5. Good stuff Moon! Your brother’s lyrics were impactful precisely because they were at once profound and simple; clean and gritty. Your writing is at least in that respect, similar. Thanks for putting it out there for the world, brother.

    1. Thanks man! I appreciate it. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I normally try to be a little more timely. Anyway, hope you and yours are doing well. Take care, and thanks for reading!

  6. Lloyd, I appreciate reading your ramblings from time to time. I went to CBC with your brother and I think that I would enjoy visiting with you as well. Thanks for being forthright.

  7. Thanks for saying all this, and I completely agree with you.
    I always did believe what you’re saying here, even years ago. Shortly before he died I actually got introduced to Rich backstage at Cornerstone, and despite all this belief I think I became a blithering start struck idiot anyway when I was face to face with him.
    The influence his songs had (and still have) was hard to reconcile with the idea of a regular human being in that moment. Thankfully for me the lasting influence of Rich was far more about pointing to heaven and far less about the successful performer.
    We’re all flawed for sure, I know I am, and I can relate to the quote about “what I’m really thinking” as it resonates so much more closely with me than almost anything I am likely to hear in most Christian Music.
    Go on speaking the truth my brother, it doesn’t always have to be clean or profound or financially gainful, or about anybody famous. Go on speaking the truth about Jesus, that’s what we all need.

  8. Hey, Lloyd! First of all, it sounds dumb to say “thanks for speaking the truth”…all the same, thanks for speaking the TRUTH.

    Second, I’m glad I got to tell your brother a couple things when he was around…like how Awesome God was to me – not the song, GOD! I struggled with addiction for over 10 years, and finally got sober about 18 months before “Winds of Heaven, Stuff of Earth” came out. I was just starting to see that the guy looking back at me in the mirror wasn’t always lovable, was far from perfect, but – in the eyes of God – was always redeemable! Depending on the song, Rich’s music still makes me smile…or cry…or just praise God all the more for the richness of his Grace.

    Finally, consider yourself hugged – virtually, anyway – by a grateful brother in the Lord.

  9. Thanks for this. I never met Rich, but discovered his music back in 1995. In 1999, God used his musical, Canticle of the Plains to call me out to the Navajo where I now live and work. I loved the movie because it didnt show him perfect, as I have heard stories from both sides of those who did know him out here. None of us are prefect in our walk, and it is so nice to start seeing this portrayed honestly.

    Oh, and I never knew some church sang the short version of Awesome God, I still know the full mime to it, and am soon to start teaching it to the youth group my Husband and I lead.

    God bless!

  10. Well said…I agree with someone above with Schultz showing Rich’s life as real is what made the movie better than just another Christian movie. I kind knew bit of the real him knowing several people who knew him at CBC… I had a collection of the same instructors at ACC as well as CIY. Admittingly, i had a fangurl moment in OT history with Dr Hooks when he was visiting. But in the end the message was “Be Gods!” The depth of lyrics is what drew me in… Awesome God is good but the ones that have spoken most are Growing Young and Or the Color Green… perhaps the more folk style but mainly The Jesus Record. Thanks for sharing. Love the movie Schultz looking forward to Brennans story.

  11. I had a hard time watching the movie….loved him before and still love him now…..saved by grace like the rest of us.

  12. Good stuff here. I’m not gonna lie, I have been fan-girl for Rich a lot, back in the day. Discovering his music led me to Brennan Manning and a much more honest understanding of God and grace. Rich did all of that and has a huge stake in my ministry today. i cried like a baby when he went home; sat at my piano for hours playing and remembering. Truth is though, if we wasn’t an honest jerk, and it’s there in his own words, if he hadn’t been amazingly ragamuffin, I wouldn’t have heard. Thank you for the reminder of a real person who served God with his whole heart to the best of his flawed, human ability.

  13. Lloyd,
    Great post! I can’t claim to have known your brother. I had met him once, but that doesn’t count. I have a dear friend who was in the Ragamuffins and who knew and loved Rich. Your article says what he had said all song. I miss Rich because I miss his craft. I miss Christian music that talked about people with flaws. …and in that, pointed people to Jesus. Thanks for writing this.

  14. I have always been a huge fan of your brother’s. In fact, I still remember exactly where I was when I found out he’d passed.
    And while parts of the movie were shocking to me, I thought it was awesome. It simply pointed us to Jesus, showing all that God can accomplish through someone who truly loves Him, in spite of our brokenness.
    Blessings to you and your family!

  15. Great post! This post like the movie and Rich’s music are so genuine and authentic. That, to me so rare in anything labeled “Christian”. Thanks for writing, I’m going to check out your posts that don’t have Rich Mullins in the title!

  16. I was quite surprised to attend a bible study my first year at Friends University to find out Rich was leading it. It was quickly evident that he was the real deal when it came to his heart after God. He was down-to-earth and warm. He pointed you to Christ immediately. That was 20 years ago. It made an impact that I remember today.

  17. It’s funny how the record companies 95th to paint an individual into one sided saint good to sell a record. I saw Rich in concert (with Christafari) at the university of New Mexcio in the late 90’s not long before he passed. He was a minister to me as he stood on stage pointing to Jesus. But even then he had a way of communicating how he was flawed but he was a work in progress because of Christ in his life. I was and am glad I got to see him perform live, and share Jesus with so many. Myself being one of them. He did impact my life for the glory of God. But I’m also glad he was flawed like you and i, He was just a man. He’s a saint now, though. Thanks for the blog.

  18. Love this write up on Rich and also the movie was very inspiring, and I am glad it was filmed showing Rich the true way of his life. That made it so much better He was a very humble person and I will watch the movie again

  19. I loved his music and followed every record release as well as attended his concerts. And I get how you would think it to be “Idol worship” but if you saw it from the perspective of a flawed and frightened kid who just found someone who wrote and sang songs about being scared and rebellious and having trouble surrendering to God, and all of a sudden someone out there was a Christian and didn’t call me to be perfect, just called me to try it would make more sense. It seemed I had a kinship with him because he touched on the not so perfect parts of a walk with God. Don’t be so hard on those of us who grew up listening to him and miss him so dearly, that’s a man who can never be recreated. Flaws and all, I have never respected a writer so much. And thank you so much for bringing the movie to fruition. It was inspiring just the way it was❤️

    1. Hey Jennifer, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to come off as accusatory or mean, but I can see how it could be taken that way, so, again, I’m sorry. I’m not saying it’s wrong to be a fan of his, or anything like that, and I’m glad he did his job, and pointed you toward Christ. Honestly, I’m kind of a fan of his too, not so much of his music, but of his writing, and his thought. It challenges me and inspires me every time I sit down to write. What I’m talking about is all the hero-worship that surrounds him. I mean, people actually drive cross-country to leave things at his grave. That’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about. I think there are a lot of people out there who are going to be disappointed if Jesus isn’t a lot like RICH MULLINS! when he comes back. I find that kind of stuff disturbing.

      1. I think it could be flattering and honorable for someone to drive a long distance to pay their respects to a person on this Earth, who is flawed, but impacted their lives enough to initiate a visit to the grave. Everyone processes appreciation differently, I guess. Sure, there are fanatics that may have ruined it for you, but I believe there are far more who garnered more altruistic intentions.

  20. Some great thoughts. Thanks. Was surprised by the movie actually. I figured Rich Mullins was “human” like the rest of us, but didn’t even come close to realizing how many and how strong his struggles were. Broke my heart. (And shame on the record companies for trying to create the perfect image instead of letting Rich Mullins be himself. Shouldn’t do that to anyone. There’s no good to come from it.) But I’ve got to say, the more accurate portrayal of Rich in the movie has been a rather large bit of assistance to me, particularly at this point in my life when I just can’t deny that even if I live to a ripe old age, I’ve already lived well more than half my life and eternity’s coming up around the bend. Its gotten me wondering sometimes if I’m “knocking on heaven’s door” or if my own struggles and doubts, arguing with myself, will have me burning for eternity. But God is real. Rich was real. And I’m glad that we had Rich Mullins, the good and the bad, to help open our eyes and to help guide us in the right direction. I think the movie was a positive thing and will do far more good than the image created by a for profit record company.

  21. I’m a im a latecomer to Rich Mullins’ music. I heard one of his songs and had to find out who this man is. Turned out the verb tense should have been “was”.

    I really don’t listen to a lot of music, but I do listen to his music because it challenges me and draws me closer to God.

    I appreciate the honesty in Ragamuffin. I was so afraid it was going to whitewash his life, and Rich would have hated that. He was very open about his flaws and the fact that his stage persona was not the real Rich. At one point I had to leave the movie and go outside and cry. I can relate to his pain.

  22. As parents to 22 children — most of whom have significant special needs and traumatic beginnings in life and ask the hard questions that will knock off any rose-colored glasses — my husband and I have a motto: “Never trust a pastor without a limp.” Rich’s obvious awareness of his fallenness (but redeemed-ness) is what gives his honest lyrics the heart and soul that reaches the deep places inside us. This post was very good. Sometimes we aren’t able to take our crew to church due to their medical challenges and will hold family services in our living room. Rich’s songs often find their way into those services and touch places inside our very broken children who are slowly making their way toward a God who loves them and sacrificed all to save them. For almost as long as I’ve known my husband, he has said that he wants, “I Stand,” sung at his funeral when the time comes. “…And if I can’t, let me fall on the grace that first brought me to You.” God worked (and continues to work) through a man who was oh so human to open the eyes and hearts of a watching world.

  23. I “slogged” all the way through and appreciate your honesty and completely agree. Rich Mullins helped me be honest in my walk with Christ, and we need more like him who are transparent in their love, pain and pursuit of holiness. I feel many people I know “fan-girl” Jesus’ image too and I wish more would be honest in their faith … when they’re feeling weak or strong.

  24. Rich’s music always spoke to me… “Hold me Jesus” … I remember when Rich would lead worship in our youth group… I remember wondering who was this man who wore a white t shirt holey jeans no shoes and smoked behind the building… as a youth his music and realness… down to earth personality was so refreshing… I hung on his every word… because he spoke about God and Jesus in ways I hadn’t heard before… I don’t worship Rich… he was a man… I’m grateful God gave him wisdom to speak …. I loved the movie…it explained a lot of my wondering about his struggles… thank you for making a movie that needed to be shared no matter how difficult… excited to see the Brennan manning movie…

  25. Thank you for keeping Rich Mullins real, I can remember with such clarity the morning I was driving to work and the DJ made the announcement of the accident that took Rich Mullins.
    I don’t want to sound like a groupie but I had seen the videos and read the stories about him, the stories that I had to kind of search for and then read between the lines, I felt like I lost a close friend, I never met him but through his music I could see that for someone to write a chorus that said ” Hold me Jesus” with verses that ( if I can paraphrase said) I am so messed up let me see that he knows my life, my battles and was letting me know I was not alone in this world.
    I cried on the way to work, it might have been a little bit of a selfish cry, but to me I had lost someone that was just who he was, thanks for just writing the way you do It’s got to be hard to do what you do.
    A few years back I was in a Goodwill looking through some old cd’s .50cent a piece and there was a Rich Mullins cd that I did not have, this was cool ! I got in my car and started to listen and the first words I heard was a song that was new to me, I cried( so I’m a little emotional) it wasn’t because I had found this cd or was ready for some Rich worship! it was because of the of the first 3 words I heard “Hello old friend”, is that cool or what.
    Thanks again. Pastor Steve Sexton

  26. Moon Mullins,

    I’ve read a number of articles that say Rich Mullins was going to convert to the Roman Catholic Church and had set up a agreement with a Catholic priest to be received into that Church. He died the week before this happened. Is that True?

    1. I don’t know. I don’t really think it matters. I know he admired a lot of things about the Catholic church, but that there were also a lot of things he couldn’t reconcile with his own beliefs. I would personally be a little surprised, just because our entire family has serious problems with authority, but what do I know? I was stationed in Las Vegas at that time, and spending 1/2 of every year in Kuwait. I guess that priest, whoever he is, would be the guy to ask.

      1. Thanks for the response! I’m not a Roman Catholic, but an Eastern Orthodox Christian Priest. I have always loved his music. I watched the recent movie too. The question for me, is just from my own interest than anything.

  27. I watched my own life played out as I watched the Ragamuffin movie. I feel saddened by the fact that since Rich’s untimely death, so many in the Church have become star-struck fans of Christian musicians, and that so many Christian musicians have become entertainers driven by their fan base rather than ministers driven by their desire to grow God’s kingdom. Oh, how I miss people like Rich Mullins and Keith Green!

    1. Unfortunately, many “Christian” artists have been driven by their desire for fame more so then showing people God. The artists that have impacted me the most are the artists that have put out songs that reflect themselves, their struggles, and the grace God has shown them through their struggles because that is who I am too. I do not listen to or have a desire to listen to artists that only show an image of perfection. They are the ones that fall the hardest and also the ones that usually cause people to cry “Hypocrite!!!” toward all Christians. I like Rich’s music because he was honest in his music. I sometimes feel he pulled “Hold Me Jesus” straight from my head because that is me. For me, he did accomplish his goal of pointing toward Heaven because that is what I think about when I listen to his music.

  28. Thanks for this post and the reminder not to make someone better than he was (idolize him). A trap all us fans can easily fall into, I’m sure. I did not enjoy the movie as much as I thought I would and maybe it’s because it kind of worked on changing my perception of who Rich Mullins was. But while I appreciate the effort to use it to point people to God, a great goal, I felt it didn’t. I got to the end of the movie and felt rather empty, rather like it was a Greek tragedy where no one, not even God, was the hero! If I had to say what my biggest issue with the movie was, it wasn’t that Rich was shown to be real, flawed, weak, and sometimes an asshole (as you said in this post and I will admit I said a number of times to my husband while watching the movie), it was that even God didn’t seem to come out the hero. I will continue to love the lyrics of his songs and realize more fully that, perhaps one reason why his lyrics are so powerful is because he was weak and flawed and all that and still experienced God’s love – same as you and I and everyone else can. And perhaps I will watch the movie again, accepting of the fact that he was just a normal human being, and maybe this time I will see God as the hero. 🙂

  29. I’m a little late to the comment party apparently. 🙂 You hit the nail on the head in every way. I saw that comment, and wondered how you’d respond. Very well, it turns out. And I’m sure you know but I’d heard (and read) your brother say he always got a little tired of “Awesome God” (but, he added, at the concert I attended, “I never get tired of God”, so that sums it up right there, doesn’t it?). I’m actually on one of those Facebook groups, not gonna lie. Yet I too get a little bothered sometimes by the posts. I kind of wonder, meanly,if anyone has a life. Much as I love and adore Rich’s music, life, words, all those videos, articles, your posts . . .usually it’s God’s word getting me through a tough time or part of the day. That or belting out angry Matchbox 20 songs in the car if I happen to be with out the kids. 🙂
    I’ll always appreciate him. I have his albums, I listen to them, I read his old Release articles (and they make me tear up a lot), all of it. God definitely used him. I believe you when you say he felt his job was pointing people to God. Which is probably what made his struggles so hard for him. As an everyday Christian, not one on the stage, I find it hard to think I can point even my children to God when I’m so flawed. So if he ever doubted if he was doing his job, I hope he knows it now. That in itself encourages me–if someone that messed up could point the way to heaven, maybe I can do it too.
    But right now I appreciate you and his other friends that can share his legacy while at the same time steering people’s eyes where they need to be. You do great. Thanks for being willing to share.
    (And I do think you got that quote right. 😀 )

  30. First, you write well. I try to write too… honestly, I appreciated your word smithing. You now have one more subscriber (& not just because you were his brother).

    I was a fan. I’m from conservative West Michigan where Christian concerts were a big deal as Rich came on the scene. I saw him open for Amy Grant’s Unguarded tour, and I was sold. He was the kind of guy who was not entirely clean, and somehow I saw parts of the broken Rich from day one. It was in his music if only you listened for it.

    I recall being pulled over by a police officer for going too fast a few months before Rich came back into town, and when I reached into the glove box, the tickets for his next show fell into my hands. The officer asked what they were, but he was not amused. I got a the ticket; the officer must not have been a fan.

    My kids have grown up with his music. They watched the movie with my wife and I a year ago, and they were entirely turned onto Rich. They were sung to sleep with his songs from the day they came home from the hospital, and now the more broken Rich Mullins resonated with them at ages 15, 12, and 9. It made my wife and I smile. This is the gospel we know and want our children to know.

    The cult of personality thing: I hear you, and I am sure there are plenty who you feel are crazy. My only, sorta, push-back is this… we all want to find people who we can follow. I so deeply want to say to people, “Follow me as I follow Christ.” In all of Rich’s broken crap in his life, in his being an asshole as you say, he never gave up on following his Creator. He always wanted to point us to a better way of living and to a deep hope that is within us.

    For me and my wife, Rich spoke and sang prophetic words about how the church was not engaging in social justice issues. He believed, or as I heard him at least, that social justice always went hand in hand with the good news of Jesus. Having studied the prophets of the Old Testament recently, your brother was spot-on.

    Thanks for your article. Your brother left a good legacy because it was a messy legacy. His life needed God’s grace for certain. I’m sorry that some people don’t want to hear about the real Rich Mullins, but you are certainly an authority of sorts. Grace & peace to you my brother.

    Now get back to the keyboard.
    Shalom.

  31. That was perfectly written and I loved how he was depicted in the movie, I was in tears and saying to myself, hey, that’s me. It was honestly a breath of fresh air to see the imperfections. Thank You so much for writing this. I was just listening to your brother today on Pandora, yes I made a Rich Mullins Station. It’s either Celtic music or Rich Mullins, so very appropriate that I listened to Rich today and came across your article. 🙂

  32. I was a late comer to Rich’s music… and found I was too late to hear anything new from him, though I have been blessed from interviews, the movie, his songs, etc… that I have come across. I am appalled at the fan page type of “worship” of him though… From what I’ve come across about him, he would have HATED that as he wanted God to get the glory for whatever he was able to give. But I do appreciate God using your brother even now… There are many who needed to hear this gifted and flawed soul. Me included. He is still a missionary to those who accidentally come across his works… For that I am thankful to our Father. Nothing is waisted. Be blessed.

  33. A few years after his death, I was discussing him with a few friends. Someone mentioned Rich was a smoker. At the time it hit me hard, but I am thankful for that now. It made me stop fan-boying valuing his relationship with God even more than his music or fame.
    Real Saints don’t have it easier. They just make it look easy.
    Thank you!

  34. Coming from out of the darkness into the light. We let our light shine the brightest when we are broken. The pieces cry out to a loving God who will use each of us. Rich was my youth pastor and friend I see him in no other way. I do see him however as one of the stones that form the foundation of my faith. That would be a blessing to Rich and at the same time crack him up. Still listen to his music but have not seen the movie maybe someday.

  35. As a longtime Rich Mullins fan I was surprised at first when watching Ragamuffin that he could be so deeply lonely and depressed, but my surprise only lasted for a few moments. When reflecting about the honest poetry in his music and hearing him speak in concert, of course that was a part of who he was. It shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that music labels have an image to project. Why would anyone think that a music video would show the ‘real’ part of a person? It’s entertainment. His lyrics and lifestyle did show a window into an honest, amazing personal desire to follow the Lord. That’s what attracted most of us ‘fans’. It was extremely refreshing to have a voice like that in a plastic world. He was a rare soul and is sorely missed. I miss his ‘voice’ still. LOVED the message of Ragamuffin – it was beautiful.

  36. When my husband and I said yes to Jesus (1991), it was at the same time that Christian music was being played more and we listened to a lot of your brother’s songs. We didn’t know anything about anything as both of us were raised by parents who were not religious. His music has been a part of our lives ever since we first started walking with Jesus.

    We loved the movie. I don’t believe people can understand the true weakness that comes from our flesh, nor do a lot of them care too. It is the classic story of “OUR works” or “Here, God, what can you do with this?” God’s glory shined through your brother’s life. We were very grateful for how your brother’s music enriched our walk with Jesus.

  37. (and I hate when churches only sing the chorus of that amazing song. . . .kind of like what they do with Keith Green’s Oh Lord, You’re Beautiful”. . .

  38. Buddy, I have to disagree. The movie was made by a first time movie maker, and the music videos, many were shot by Steve Taylor, very professional! The point I saw in the movie that bummed me, who kinda knew him, and fans that just loved him, was a completely depressed man that seemed to have no joy, the kind that’s only found in the Holy Spirit. I only got to interview Rich a few times, and those who have interviewed him would say it’s some of their worst interviews they’ve ever had. Rich was horrible at drivel, which to me was great! We had a wonderful interview because I asked him really important questions, and I learned form him. I think he like d being a teacher, but too many of us don’t like to be students. If you’re only going to show one side of Rich, you’re wrong, show both sides, but understand people want to see the gift more than the sin.

    1. Cool, it’s nice to hear from somebody who disagrees with me. I didn’t know about the Steve Taylor thing. Believe it or not, I don’t really spend much time watching them. Anyway, yeah, I also see your point that the movie could have been a little more balanced. It’s certainly a flawed film, but I’m glad they went the route they did. Like I said, if you want to get a good glimpse of what he was really like, you have to watch both. Anyway, thanks for reading, and thanks for your feedback. I really do appreciate it.

    2. When people are talking about the Rich they saw in videos, they may be referring to “Pursuit of a Legacy”, which was done by Steve Taylor. But more than likely, especially from the way the comments are worded, they are talking about the concert and interview videos, which were largely amateur.

  39. When I saw the movie I cried because I am a Christian who struggles with depression. Sometimes that makes me feel like such an outcast. But God loves the outcast and gives us grace to pull through. That is why the realness of the movie reached my heart. Thank you for being real.

    1. Hey Robin…sorry to hear you have depression. I had it for years and Jesus Christ wiped it out for me and told me why I had it. If you want to chat and hear how Jesus took it completely away I can help you…if not, no worries and may Jesus Bless you! corbinknoll@gmail.com

  40. good stuff man. he and beaker hung out at youth group when i was in high school at central christian. i had never heard of him before but he banged on the piano pretty well and he was silly and awkward and questioned everything and that really had me interested in him as a young man. when i look at all the “hoopla” about him, i am always drawn back to those days, as this guys who wrote the song “never picture perfect” and told me that he was ok with it and i should be too. i appreciate you lloyd. thanks for sharing your heart about that one guy that i knew who had no shoes, ripped up jeans, and a hammered dulcimer who once told me that loving Jesus had nothing to do with pretension.

  41. Thank you for saying what I made the mistake of saying on one of his fan pages and got myself chewed out. I found Richs music in the early 80’s. First I was taken in by his love of the natural world.( It buzzs, it beeps ,it shinny, it shines, it rattles, it patterns, it purrs) those where the things that I loved.Thats where I found God.Than I started to believe we were maybe kindred spirits. I was molested when I was very young. I believe because of that I wasn’t good at putting my feelings in to word, but those words I found in Richs music. I recognized his brokenness. That brokeness later brought me to Brennan. When he died I was maybe the only person in the world who had not heard. While others were listening to the radio I was listening to his CD’s. I over heard one of my friends say something about it. I liken to being hit with a hammer. Many years later he is still in my CD player and he is still helping me put my feelings in words.

  42. I haven’t driven cross country to leave things at his grave, but I have been to visit. We live just a few miles away, and I sometimes take friends from out of town when they are here. It’s not a fandom sort of thing, but it is emotional in a “Here’s a real person who truly knew he belonged to Jesus and wanted other people to know that, too” way. (If AW Tozer had lived near me, you can bet that I’d be out at his grave, too).

  43. I recently posted a comment on a thread pertaining to how the movie portrayed Rich, and I think it sums it up for the vast majority:

    “The two greatest singer-songwriters in Christendom were Rich Mullins and Keith Green.
    The difference between the two is that after their deaths, the family of Keith Green worked very hard to protect his image, whereas the family of Rich Mullins worked very hard to magnify his. Rather than investing your time to research more in-depth about the personal life of Rich Mullins, your time would be better spend searching after The One to whom Rich pointed. ”

    If anything, the movie deepened my respect for Rich in that it showed me just how much like me Rich really was. He wasn’t one to be placed on a pedestal and worshiped; he was one who struggled with very similar demons that I dance with.

    1. Hey Scotty! I’m a little confused by the quote. Are you saying my family has done wrong, or right? I’m not pissed or worried or anything, just want to understand. Please let me know. Thanks for reading!

  44. First, I want to say how much I loved the movie Ragamuffin for portraying Rich in an honest way. The only thing that was really tough to watch was how sad and tormented the movie portrayed him. I wish when he lived on earth he knew how much he touched people through his music and concerts. I hope God showed Rich that when he entered heaven! I sure do miss him and his music!

  45. Another great post! Rich used his talent to bring others to Christ and did it well. Thank you for sharing your brother with us. I have no doubt he is still doing God’s work through his music. Who knows, he may even be your guardian angel! Keep writing, you have talent too!

  46. Thanks, Lloyd. I don’t have a problem idolizing Rich, but I do like Kieth Green a lot. You should write a post about Kieth. 🙂

    1. I don’t know anything about Keith Green. You’ll have to wait until the neurotics in his family start talking, I guess!

  47. Ragamuffin connected me with some things from my past that confirmed that I needed to make some things right with a family member that I was distant from after seeing Rich’s dad die never telling him he loved him, never hearing, even though he knew he did. I made things right with this family member, whether they wanted me to or not.
    I got to meet Rich at Second Baptist Church in Houston, Texas in 93. While waiting for him to sign my CD I bought, he kept making eye contact with me. He had this transparent look in his eyes like he could see right through me. When I got up to the table he asked me if I was okay. I told him I was and asked him why he asked. He told me he recognized my brokenness from across the room because he had it too. I briefly told him of my recent experiences in the Army during Operation Desert Storm and some other things that happened, and that I suffered from PTSD and depression. He prayed with me.
    I’ve been drawn in by his musical gift and lyrical genius ever since. Talk about a “Verge of a Miracle” story. He told me that my life paralleled that song and that he would be praying for me in the months ahead as I recover from my depression. I miss him.
    Sincerely,
    Robert Mahaffey
    (No relation to Clarke)

    1. Hey man, I hope you’re doing all right now. I served in the Air Force for 20 years, from ’84-’04,so I have some small idea of what you’ve gone through.Thanks for everything you’ve done for us all, and thanks for your comment. Thanks for reading!

    2. Mr. Galt, I don’t need your validation for what I, nor my unit went through, nor what happened to me on our own soil after that conflict. This is not one of those troll threads, this is a blog honoring a musician and a servant of God that obviously left no inspiration on your life whatsoever. Keep trolling. I certainly hope Mr. Mullins finds as much lack of humor in your comment as he does decency and warns you about future posts, or bans you all together! Good day sir!

      1. Robert. I spent some time trying to formulate a particularly stinging response to Mr. Galt, but realized that his comment was beneath contempt, and unworthy of a response. Instead, I simply deleted his comment. I won’t stand for that kind of trolling here. I apologize for providing a numbskull like that a forum. Hope you’re doing okay. Have a good day.

  48. Rich’s music at that time and even still after almost 20 years his departure, is the most genuine from any one person. I discovered Rich’s music in April of 1997 after coming to the faith. Having been raised in the Church as a child though I was familiar with some songs. I listened to his radio interviews and bought all his CD’s.
    It wasn’t until he picked me up in July of 1997 though that I really met his personality. You’re right though. Too find him you have to look between the movie and music but he was more than that. I was walking along the highway here and twenty years old at the time. I was talking with God and it was around 21:30 as I progressed to a city 30 min drive from where I lived to get my truck.
    I didn’t recognize that it was Rich at the time as he pulled up about 100 yrds ahead. He was talking about hymns and played them. He was very open about as struggling with sin and I found a genuine Christian brother. I kept thinking how familiar he looked and his voice sounded.
    He had a humorous personality, he was inquisitive about me and joked about how seriously we took ourselves. He loved Jesus though. He would talk about wrestling with sins and how he hated that. I felt open to talk about anything with Jesus. It was after he dropped me off that I realized it was Rich Mullins.
    I know what you mean by, “The real Jesus isn’t here but he’ll do for the time being” because it is my personal belief that when a person is so raptured in the love of Christ that they emulate Jesus’ love that at the thought of the person you think of Jesus and not the person, then possibly that person has been molded in the image of Christ to the point it’s time for them to go home.
    When I think of Rich, I think of Jesus…not Rich. Paul was not without sin, nor Peter or any other apostle. I think Rich would be happy to know that people remember Jesus when they remember him.

  49. What a wonderful legacy Rich left …. I pray that God will continue to use my life to bless others as your brother did and will continue to do for many years to come through his music. God blesses each of us with gifts to help us bring light to this world for Him and even though Wayne was flawed, like the rest of us, he shined bright!
    Years ago a friend gave me some of Rich’s music to listen to and I’ve listened to it often; however, I never knew anything about him until I came upon the Ragamuffin movie earlier tonight online and it sounded familiar and worth watching. WOW – I loved the movie and it got me searching the internet for info and I came across your blog Lloyd, thank you for more insight. I’m definitely not fan-girling 🙂 I love seeing the works God has going on in the world through His children. I’m definitely going to recommend the movie to others as the message is VERY good and I know many will find it encouraging.
    May the lives of those around us continue to be better because of the kindness, generosity, compassion and abundant love we all share with them!

  50. That was one of the things that bummed me most about the movie, Rich was a goofball at times, none of that in the film, just dark & brooding. Let’s make it again!

  51. Thanks for this. The same friend who introduced me to Rich’s music my freshman year of college sent me this link. I’m sure it’s trippy and surreal to see the reaction to your brother’s life get almost culty in some ways. I listened to and loved his music, saw him in concert many times, was very sad when I heard he’d died. And it’s weird to think that I’m now older than he was when he died. And I still listen to his music — I had it playing in the car yesterday.

    I did see one of those “oops! tattoos” slideshows a while ago where someone had “Our God is A Awesome God” tattooed across her neck. (Note to self: Always proofread tattoos before committing.) It was such a great visual of what you wrote about here… that need to incorporate the Myth of Rich.

    And you’re a good writer, David. Even without “Rich Mullins” in the header.

    1. Thanks, glad you liked it. One note however, I’m Lloyd, not David. No harm done. Thanks for reading!

  52. Lloyd, I was thinking about starting a Rich Mullins Tribute Band called “Ragamuffin Revival”. How would I go about the legalities of starting it or would it even be possible? I want to bring his lesser popular music back to churches. They all still sing Awesome God and Sometimes By Step, but his music was lightyears deeper than just those two songs. Would I be out of line by trying to get permission to attempt this?

    1. Dude, I don’t have the first idea how to go about doing that. Sorry. You might try getting hold of my brother, David. He’s more familiar with all that stuff.

        1. Best thing I can tell you is go to kidbrothers.org. There’s a David Mullins tab with a contact Dave thing. Give that a try. It may take him a while to get back to you, he’s pretty busy. Hope this helps.

  53. Wonderful post. Someone upthread said that Rich didn’t call them to be perfect, but to try it. If I could suggest another version (that I hope they’d agree with), I’d say he didn’t call me to be perfect, he called me to worship. I get tears in my eyes just thinking of the impression his music has made on my life, of the tremendous comfort and wonder it has imparted.

    We are at a pretty pass when popular Christianity has us trapped in such a performance trap as I see reflected in so many of these posts here. Yet it’s hard growing up – you perform at school, and get rewarded or punished accordingly, and much the same at home; indoctrination precedes understanding, I guess. And just like we pull away from God’s love, we imagine that our parents don’t love us (well, sometimes they don’t – I speak generally). We don’t realize the depth of our sin, of our coming so far, far short of the glory of God, juxtaposed with a love so unfathomable, so passionate, yes, so furious that He would do anything, right up thorough death, to make it right between us.

    I don’t have any problems with Rich being a smidgen less than perfect(!); my mirror shows me a man worthy of death,and yet deeply loved by God.

    Thanks again.

    On the business end, & along the lines of a revival band, I’d spend a pretty good chunk of money for the actual accompaniment tracks to his music. I mostly sing in the car, but it’d still be worth it if they could be recovered. There’s a few out there, but they aren’t original. Rich would probably be appalled, but I’m not “fangirling”. I just like what I like from singing along with the CD’s for all these years.

    1. I have a few of his “generic” accompaniment tracks too. I agree, he would be appalled because some “musicians” don’t know how to treat the music right. I would rather learn the songs and blend them with a few of the songs I have written to praise God with. Still waiting to hear from David about this. I know he is a busy man. Patiently waiting.

      1. Well, it’s really in the hands of the record companies, and they have to have enough return on investment to make it worthwhile. Crowdfunding, perhaps?

          1. Well, for your band, yes, that would make sense. For my tracks, we have to make it worthwhile for the record companies. Sorry for the confusion.

  54. Wow, thanks. It’s been a long trail between those days with Rich at college and now. I really had quit reading or watching anything that had to do with Rich. I was tired of seeing all the cleaned up version of him when I know that’s not how he wanted to be seen. His struggles were just as important as his victories and they were part of his pointing people to Jesus. Guess I need to go see that movie now. Sounds like an attempt to show the authentic Rich was made. Your blog was refreshing. Thanks again.

    1. Thanks, I appreciate it. I thought the movie was good. It’s flawed, certainly, but what isn’t? Anyway, glad you liked the post. Thanks for reading!

  55. Flawed? Yeah, but just like Rich, and just like all of us, it was “fearfully and wonderfully made.”

  56. Hi Lloyd..
    I hope you keep writing. It’s obvious that talent and transparency run in your family. Thanks for sharing!
    I still miss your brother and wonder how many songs he took with him. But I’m sure he’s singing them in Heaven.
    Grace and peace.
    Terri Thayer

    1. Terri, Glad you liked it. Of course, before you get too hopeful about me continuing to write, you should probably read some of my other stuff. Hahaha. Anyway, thanks for reading!

      1. Hi Lloyd,
        Thanks for responding. I look forward to reading your future thoughts. I think you sell yourself short. Please keep sharing!
        Grace and Peace,
        Terri Thayer

        1. I don’t think I’m selling myself short so much as keeping myself from getting too cocky! Have a good day. Later.

          1. How about you just keep writing, and we’ll pray for The Lord to keep you humble! And hey, your readers can help The Lord out! Deal?☺
            Grace and Peace.

  57. I’ve seen the movie at least 3 times and loved it ! There is such an anointing on Rich’s music that makes it stand out from the rest. I accepted Christ almost 30 yrs ago and I can relate to the struggles portrayed in the movie. I wish I would have met him in person. I guess I just have to wait a while and will meet him in Heaven.

  58. Wow! Really – thank you. I needed to read this. It had to be Rich Mullin’s brother to help me understand …thank you.

  59. The first time I looked at Rich Mullins’ lyric sheet from “Songs”, I was overcome with emotion. I looked at my wife and said, “These are the thoughts I have, but could never put into words.” I have never pictured Rich as anything other than genuine – which I believe is as good as anyone can hope for.

  60. I am a fan… I seen Rich many times in concert from small gatherings where he was right in front of us to huge stadiums. I didn’t like the movie. This sounds mean but it was just almost that you were trying to hard to show joy in his life. maybe it was the actor . I just wish it showed more real. I felt it was just trying to show the hard times. I bought the dvd. My son watch it with me as well. Because he listens to Rich music all the time since he was little. He was even like wow, how sad. I wish it was more balance.

  61. That picture is from our vacation to Lake Powell, when Mitch’s car broke down and we had to wait at the Holiday Inn at Canyon de Chelly and rode horses. 🙂 Hi! This is Jen, Rich’s friend from Window Rock. Don’t ask me how I stumbled across your blog. Just looking at pictures today, of course, and I went – I know that one! Those of us who were his friends on the Rez are quite separate from all the fandom crap. Sorry, is that too negative? Ha. We simply knew him as one of our community and miss him as such.
    I still tell people about Flossieland when I teach people how to play up and down the river, which I learned on this trip.
    That was a super week. Blessings to you all from a connection from many years ago. Jen

    1. Hey Jen, sorry it took me so long to respond. I’ve stayed as far away from all the fandom crap as I can, as well. I think he’d prefer it that way, that we kept loving him for himself and who he was to us, and completely separate from the fame and stuff. You take care, and thanks for reading!

  62. Thank you for this insightful post. It helps me to understand Rich Mullins the person, as well as his art, better. Because of Rich I have taken up the hammered dulcimer a few years back and occasionally play it in a small church band I’m in. I’ve always wondered, what happened to his hammered dulcimer, after he died. I hope it is being cherished, somewhere. Thanks again for sharing.

    1. Thanks for reading it. I’m not really sure what happened to all of his instruments, but I’ve got one of his hammered dulcimers and one of his guitars. Just wish I could play ’em.

      1. I’m so glad to know that the whereabouts of these two instruments are known. Learning to tune the hammered dulcimer takes a ilttle doing but once you know the notes and the basics of how to do it, it’s just a litte time consuming but not difficult. There are quite a few excellent resources for learning to play, on YouTube. One can begin playing simple things pretty quickly! Thank you again.

  63. Hi Lloyd, I’m glad to see that this blog post is still fairly active, I have enjoyed strolling through the responses and was pleased to learn you are a fellow AF veteran/retiree. Thanks for your service!

    Anyway, I tripped over the post looking for an answer to my wife’s question, whether Wayne (I hope it is OK as a non family member to use his family name) AND Keith Green were contemporaries. Turns out they were so contemporary that they shared a birthday, two years apart but still!! Still looking to see if they ever worked together…

    I first got a clue of his realness when he spoke about Amsterdam and wanting to go out and be tempted (but, alas, Beaker didn’t “cooperate.”) I need Jesus to hold me, too. And I love Jesus even more because He still uses this “donkey,” too, in spite of my sin. It came to me a while back that the LORD has to work through weak, leaky vessels because there is no one else. It shows His Glory even more.

    If you are so inclined, take a peak at the home page of an outfit that I hang out with, flies way under the horizon and just wants to see military folks following Jesus, Christian Military Fellowship. http://www.cmfhq.org

    (The fill in the URL line below didn’t think that was in the right format so I put it there)

    Keep writing.

  64. Rich was connected to Jesus, and he did point us to Him. Then we clung to Rich, and his memory, or the memories of Rich connecting us to Jesus. And that is dangerous because no human should take the place that only Jesus should have. Yet it’s our nature to do so. The intent is good, wanting to be connected to Jesus, but depending upon someone else to do that will disappoint us every time.

  65. I dunno. It’s all right to realize that someone really does have an exceptional gift for words and music that you feel more deeply, more truly than some of the shallow, frothy stuff that passes for worship music today. I shouldn’t be that way perhaps, but Rich was a marvellous wordcrafter and I don’t cling to him so much as the beautiful pictures he painted with sound. And then I go to church – well, I thank God we’ve found a church that keeps the old hymns active, and the modern stuff actually says something, for the most part.

    That’s why I still tell people about him, so they can jump on the old “internets” and see and hear for themselves. Are we to forget Issac Watts? Francis of Assisi? Patrick of Ireland? Charles Wesley? Fanny Crosby? How about Kieth Green? Don Francisco? And a host of others… Perhaps Rich’s music isn’t suited for the hymbook (I’d sing it!), but it is beautifully gifted, and needs to be integrated into the life of the Body of Christ somehow.

    1. I too love those old hymns. The problem with songs like “Awesome God” is not so much with the song, as with what we do to them to render them “acceptable” for church. We gut them of any actual meat, cutting them down to a chorus that makes us feel good, instead of making us think. At least that’s what I think. Thanks for reading!

      1. I know! They take out the wonderful words and just leave all the fluff. For that matter, all we hear any more is the chorus to “Awesome God” and “Sometimes by Step” when there is sooooo much more. How about “making me new out of the stuff that lasts… stuff that’s purer than gold is, and clearer than glass could ever be!”

        But I’m composing something to corbin k below, poor fellow,, so I’ll sign off. Thanks for the reply!

  66. Does just having a beautiful voice and singing catch lyrics mean someone is going to heaven? Even good works does not mean someone is going to heaven. The bible says all drunkards will go to hell unfortunately. It also says that those who are loved by the world and are friends with sinners like Catholic priests are not true followers of Jesus Christ.

    Rich said all the time that he believed his god says it is ok to have a cigars, a few alcoholic drinks and to eat some junk food, etc. Rich said Jesus knows we want to have a good time and laugh at things like this. What? The bible I read has a God who does not want any of us to ever drink alcohol or take any substance that mind altering. We must be filled with the Holy Spirit and not spirits like Rich loved to do.

    So sad, but that is the truth. Most christians create a fairy tale Jesus that somehow gives them a free pass to sin like Jesus just loves to forgive them each time they continue to sin against him and wreck their body, mind and spirit that Jesus Christ paid for on the cross. The false watered down gospel is spread through most all christian singers back then and still today. Sad, but true. Just because someone has a voice like an angel does not mean they are like a holy angel and they can deceive themselves along the way and others into idolizing them and their music.

    1. I hope for your sake that you’re better at living a sinless, blameless life than every other Christian I know. If you’re not, then I think you’re going to have a very disappointing afterlife.

  67. My dear fellow, when you read the 1st chapter of Romans, I would ask that you continue to read the second as the the though the chapter break were not there.

    It is so odd to me; your post says we can’t be saved by good works, and all you talk about is not sinning so you can go to heaven.

    To be honest, you sound exactly like the way Jesus described the Pharisees – “John came neither eating nor drinking, and you said he had a devil – the Son of Man comes both eating and drinking, and you call Him a glutton and a party goer, a friend of publicans and sinners.” Do you think Jesus never laughed? Never had a drink of wine? How hard do you have to wrench on the text of the wedding at Cana to turn the wine back into grape juice?

    I will very much agree with you that the God Who loves us so deeply wants us to be free – really free – and not under the control of tobacco, alcohol, or any such substance. But don’t go around condemning people over those things when you live a life of sin – falling short of the glory of God – every single day of your life. Be filled with the Spirit and be the love of God, be the gospel to the sad world around you.

  68. Tom Cunningham you unfortunately are a complete fool like Rich. Anyone that actually reads the bible knows that NO DRUNKARD will inherit the kingdom of God. I will pray for you that you might be able to read that since it is repeated all through the bible and Jesus is not a liar like you are so when you put me down your are putting him down.

    You follow your own Mister Rogers version of Jesus Christ and a false Gospel like most Christians do unfortunately. Any fool know Jesus did not laugh at drunkards like Rich or any other drunkard, but he warned them. Serving the poor like Rich did was wonderful, but Rich and others do good works to make up for their deadly sins so those particular works in those particular cases to not offset it because the sins are so detrimental to the body of Christ. That is why Jesus calls out specific sins and says on one will inherit the kingdom of heaven that is a drunkard, murderer, homosexual, etc., and preaches a false Gospel like you obviously do.

    Being free…or really free as you say is below not doing what we want, but loving God so we have obedient faith and follow his commands so we are set free from our sins and a not a slave to them anymore. People like you just have belief and faith, but no obedient faith and believe in a false christ that is all fun and laughs and accepts your sin. False Christians like you help lead others to hell which is sad. You seriously need to repent if you know what that means before it is too late.

  69. moonandjess…Wow! Horribly weak reply again and I thought you could do better so keep trying since your short weak reply reflects your short understanding of the scriptures and relationship with Jesus Christ.
    Keep following your Mister Rogers version of Jesus Christ if you want to secure your place in the pit and your pride along with leading others to believe Jesus forgives them if they get drunk, are drunks and as they live sinful in life. I can’t believe people like you believe Jesus just loves to forgive and dish out grace as you all promote sin as normal and righteous.

    You believe this kind of nonsense since it makes you feel good about your own sins and false gospel. Jesus says many will believe in their own version of him created in their minds and by false teachers and they be deceived and you both are a prime example of this. Don’t worry, I forgive you both, so anything you say is just sad to hear, but will Jesus forgive you for putting him down by not telling the truth of what he demands of his true believers?

    You all follow a false gospel and don’t believe sin will lead you to hell, but instead you put me down for speaking the truth like Jesus warns us and you all refuse to remember all those passages due to your pride and blindness. When you mock Jesus’s words, warnings, etc. and what he says you will see he is not about all fun and games and listening to fluffy music to make you feel righteous.

    Jesus says judge those off of their fruits and Rich was unfortunately a drunkard and did drugs and promoted a false Gospel with his own funny versions of the scriptures to make light of his addictions and others things that were beyond dangerous. It does not say only drunkards who can sing christian songs really good will make it while everyone else will perish.Just because he had a wonderful voice and was funny does not get him a free pass over those who are drunkards and can’t sing like him. Equally as importantly, he was a false teacher if you listen to all his opinions on the scriptures.

    I will pray for you both. I won’t pray for Rich since it is too late for him unfortunately since the bible says all drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. Rich was going to be Catholic and if not, he loved his friends that were Catholics. The Catholics pray to dead saints and dead loved ones. I would assume you both do the same on this also or will justify this with your false gospel.

    Again, I will pray for you both and I forgive you both, but will Jesus Christ since you totally disrespect his pure word and commands.

  70. Corbin, you read an awful lot into my post. I never said being free is doing what you want. Being free for me is defined in the 8th chapter of John’s Gospel.

    I found you post to be extremely abrasive and making assumptions about other’s motives, etc, and especially about what I preach or don’t preach. If you want to bring in the full Sermon on the Mount, let me refer you to Matthew 5:22.

    I was also offended by your reference to Fred Rodgers, who was more of a godly man than you & I will ever be this side of Heaven. Let me give you an example: Once he was in New York City to film an episode. As he got out of the taxi, a group of young toughs spotted him and one of them exclaimed “Holy ****! It’s Mr. ****in’ Rodgers! Would you have been offended? He greeted them warmly and the transformation began – the fellow watching couldn’t believe his eyes as these streetwise teenagers transformed to little kids, reminiscing and softening to the warmth of this man. And one thing he always did when he met you – he asked how he could pray for you -and he did. It’s one thing to preach some sort of “Gospel” however you style it to be – it’s quite another to BE the love of God going someplace to happen.

    You might be surprised to find that I agree with you. No one will inherit the kingdom of heaven that is a drunkard, murderer, homosexual, etc., But they won’t be saved by their works, they won’t be saved by repentance. It is by grace that you are saved, through faith -and that, not of yourself. It is the gift of God. I’m sure you recognize that.

    Look at yourself – do you realize the difference between your character and the character of Christ? I see my own sin every day, starkly, and I do none of those things you’ve listed. I’m overweight. That’s sinful. I’m sometimes impatient, sometimes unkind, I fall asleep in my prayers, I don’t know if I should retire or not, am I hoarding too much for myself, I can’t seem to work out how to reconcile with someone I’ve offended (also in the Sermon on the mount). Every day I see how lost I am, how lost WE are.

    And I see God, in Christ, reconciling Himself to the world. I see the beauty in Him and I desire that more than anything. And he has promised to conform me to the image of His Son. He has given me, by gift purely undeserved, a love for Him that I want to pour out to others, per John 4.

    Further, I don’t idolize Rich or any other singer. But if I wait for a perfect person to write the music I love, I’ll have a long wait on my hands.

  71. Again, you all are lost. I can’t read your posts anymore since the are so absurd. You are so lost to say Fred Rogers was a godly man and more than you and me? What? Fred Rogers had gay friends and even told one of his gay friends to only have sex with his gay boyfriend and not other guys. What?? You all are lost and anyone that knows the basics in the bible knows you don’t tell a homosexual to have sex with anyone of the same sex.
    Again, I forgive you all, but you all are lost and don’t even know anything about the true Gospel and even about the people you look up to as christians.
    You all follow a false Jesus Christ and it is so sad.

  72. Did you read the rest of my post? Or just pick out the one thing about Fred Rodgers that I wasn’t aware of (true or other wise) and leave the rest?

    Look at the Cross. Look at your Savior hanging in agony. Listen to Him pray, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” You keep looking for ways to condemn people (Another thing mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount). He was always looking to bring people in. And when he touches you, it changes you.

  73. You make no sense as always and keep on loving your false beliefs, false Gospel and your Mister Rogers who is friends with gay men and tells them it is alright to have sex with their gay lovers. I choose to obey Jesus Christ and spread the Gospel while you spread nonsense that leads others to a false Christ.

  74. Show me where I don’t make sense. Or give me the gospel. Or both. Corbin, please, it is tough to do this where the expression is limited to flat text, but I hear a very angry person, a person very much like I was once, when I had many Psalms learned by heart, the 53rd of Isaiah learned by heart, the 19th of Exodus, the first 4 chapters of John’s gospel, I’d the complete history of the Catholic Church, numerous good Puritan authors;, beautiful scripture exposition illustrating Christ in the Old Testament – I knew my doctrine up one side and down the other, I can still recite the meaning of the TULIP. I attended church I boycotted the wrong companies, i didn’t drink, smoke, chew or go with girls that do.

    And I was lost, friend, LOST. I had sin eating me from inside out. But He loved me, He confronted me, He showed me clearly where and why He had to die for ME. It has transformed everything about my life, and all in accordance with the Scripture, which I prize VERY highly as the only inerrant source of God’s will for us.

  75. Judge righteously, or judge not. Being an inspector of fruits of one’s works is one thing. But if you find fault in them that you can be a light in a dark place constructively, then go to THAT person in private and be a light. In this case, you can’t, because Rich is gone. I seem to recall, if I’m not mistaken (correct me Mr. Mullins, if I am wrong), but God sent a gentleman named Brennan Manning to redirect Rich toward the path of behavior that God would have him follow before his passing.
    We were called to be fishers of men. God gives us the proper bait to real the waivering souls to shore to walk “In The Way.” It is then up to God to clean up “the fish” we catch; not us. And thank God for that. As imperfect as we are, we would completely foul up God’s chosen servants. Mainly, because our ways are not His ways, and our thoughts are not His thoughts. Take it easy on people. Your dogmatic view on Christianity is exactly why the lost turn away from the church to seek the truth. You can’t force feed scripture to the lost to steer them out of hell. They act lost, because they are lost. Jesus didn’t beat up the lost with the law, the religious leaders of the day did. That’s why the people avoided them. Go easy. I have no doubt that you have the best of intentions, but as Al Denson once sang, “Say It With Love.”

  76. Again, someone coward christian saying nonsense and saying something unbiblical like “take it easy on people.” Poor Rich Mullins had coward christian friends like you who did not help him repent so he would stay away from alcohol and drugs and follow Jesus’s clear commands.

    You all follow a Mister Rogers philosophy and false watered down gospel. Mister Rogers said it just like you all believe that people are perfect they way they are and we need to accept others and not judge them and never let them know when they heading down a path of sin that will lead them to hell since they could hurt their feelings.

    You all created your own belief systems and the bible and Jesus clearly does not support what you stand for. Again, I forgive you, but will Jesus forgive you for leading others to your false gospel? I don’t know, but Jesus does.

  77. Corbin, you are no longer engaging. You are simply throwing rocks but giving nothing to back it up. You have not responded to my content at all other than to pick fly crap out of the pepper. Go ahead, go back and read what I said, leaving everything about Mr. Rodger our of it and respond to the rest.

    You are misrepresenting what we say and condemning us to Hell. This is completely against Scripture, explicitly forbidden. You say you forgive us but we have not sinned against you. You say you forgive us but you don’t know if Jesus will. Does that sound congruent to you?

    I’m not trying to debate you. I’m trying to love you in Christ.

  78. Again, just an opinion from someone who follows the false watered down gospel and looks up to Mister Rogers as a true Christian even though he had gay friends and told them to just have sex with one gay partner.
    Pride, pride, pride, and a false gospel. You are coward christians who try to justify their nonsensical opinions that are not biblical.
    Again, I forgive you, but will Jesus Christ since you obviously do not know him?
    Repent and follow the true Gospel for once. Yes, that is solid teaching from someone who tries to support the true gospel.

  79. Only Jesus Christ can teach you the gospel. Paul Washer has a three book series on Amazon on the true gospel and abbreviated versions on YouTube. Paul Washer has videos on YouTube also on all kinds of key topics.

    He hammers the truth if you like the truth, but if not, just show up to a Catholic church like Rich Mullins did since none of his friends could wake him up unfortunately in time and most people in all denominations follow a false Gospel in their church. Jesus warned us this would happen and the god of this world is Satan which most take for granted and think they can see him in their lives.

    Paul Washer speaks the truth on sexual sin, false teachers, christian music and all the topics that most all pastors are too afraid to teach because most all Christians don’t like to hear about things that are “not loving” to hear about even though it is the truth that Paul teaches and teaches others not to sugar coat the truth which churches do today.

    Jesus did not come to bring peace on earth like you all spread with a false gospel. He can to divide with the TRUTH because Jesus knew most all don’t like the truth because they create their own Jesus Christ in their mind and heart and justify this. They are blinded by their sin and Satan so they feel they are not one of those that is Lukewarm like Jesus warns of. Read for yourself.
    Luke 12:49-56
    Jesus Causes Division
    49 “I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning! 50 I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished. 51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against.

    53 ‘Father will be divided against son
    and son against father;
    mother against daughter
    and daughter against mother;
    and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law
    and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.’[a]”

    54 Then Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “When you see clouds beginning to form in the west, you say, ‘Here comes a shower.’ And you are right. 55 When the south wind blows, you say, ‘Today will be a scorcher.’ And it is. 56 You fools! You know how to interpret the weather signs of the earth and sky, but you don’t know how to interpret the present times

  80. Corbin, I’d be happy to do that, but I really wish you’d engage with my content. I’ve said clearly that I agree with you on several key points including sexual sin. Plus it concerns me that you say you can’t give me the gospel. How can you follow the Great Commission if you cannot succinctly and sincerely answer the question, “What must I do to be saved?”

  81. Sorry, I can’t help you. Read Paul Washer’s books and videos on YouTube. If you don’t know what you need to do to be saved then I suggest you start reading right away and not waste any more time. Only Jesus Christ can help you understand the true Gospel, but Paul’s books and videos can help.

    I do know that following a false Jesus Christ and false Gospel won’t save you…and neither will following Mister Rogers or Rich Mullins false belief system and false Gospel. Much love to both of those guys for being super nice guys, but I don’t have to love their false messages that many people heard and follow to this day. No where in the bible does it say God takes nice people to heaven or that God loves everyone and even those who say they know him when they don’t. Mister Rogers and Rich did say some things right, but just saying some things while misleading others with other dangerous things is not what a true believer of Jesus Christ would ever do.

    You must serve Jesus Christ with your life and 99.9% won’t work. Most Christians believe Jesus is there to protect them, be proud of them, and serve them for the most part rather than how they are supposed to serve him in all ways and all the time…so they are not even close.
    Much love – take care – serve the true Jesus Christ!

  82. I guess what I saw in Rich Mullins’ lyrics are like the Psalms. David led a MESSED UP life. No doubt. But he followed God with his whole heart and you can see that in his Psalms. I can draw a parallel to Rich Mullins in the same way. He wasn’t perfect, but he points us to worship God deeper.

    I think we (humanity) have a natural tendency to worship. It just gets dangerous when we worship a person who is worshiping God instead of worshiping God. I appreciate your thoughts putting a perspective on that. Thank you for sharing.

  83. The bible says all drunkards will NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD and there are tons of passages that say this. It does not say that Rich Mullins or other super nice people like him are the exceptions. Wake up please.
    I did not write the bible so if you want to be mad at me fine. Because I sure hope that Jesus lied about this in the scriptures so Rich is in heaven, but does Jesus and the scriptures lie to us? Come on….we show love to everyone, but we can’t like about the scriptures if you really follow the true Jesus Christ and not a imposter version that most follow. Jesus tells us that most people will believe they follow him, but most will follow a false christ. God Bless, but again, I did not write the scriptures, but I do know they are true and Jesus Christ brings truth and would not allow the scriptures to lie to us.

  84. Lastly, my grandpa was the nicest guy you ever met and had to serve in the military. He never said one mean word to anyone and died from drinking whiskey at night due to his PTSD. Does he get an exception even though the bible says all drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God?
    My grandfather was Catholic and simply followed a false christ unfortunately. You don’t have to be just Catholic to follow a false christ since there are many ways to do this. I love my grandpa, but I love Jesus and the truth more so I have to believe in Jesus’s word and assume my grandpa is not in heaven.
    Yes, it breaks my heart, but loving Jesus is believing in his commands and obeying them and especially on the ones the scriptures repeat over and over because those certain ones like being a drunkard are ones you do not get an exception for. Much love, but more truth with love.

    1. corbin — you’re like the neighborhood tomcat that picks fights with everyone, pisses on all of our stuff, impregnates our girls, and then runs away without even the courage to show your real name. if that is what it means to be a follower of Jesus, what is your good news?

  85. Corbin, I have been trying to get back to this since we last left of our “conversation” a few weeks back. Unfortunately, they’ve told us to work all the hours we can at work, and it’s been rainy, and with 6 acres of land to care for I’m mowing and keeping brush down and working, working, working. And I want to be very careful with what I say, as I intend to tread on Holy Ground. I care about you,believe it or not.

    It really disturbs me that you, as a Christian, can come on here telling us who ISN’T “going to heaven”, and why, even your beloved grandfather is probably in hell, because, to paraphrase what you said, he was self-medicating at night with whiskey due to PTSD from military experiences.

    Yet when I ask, you cannot simply present the Gospel to me. You. A Christian. A follower of Christ. Carrier of the Great Commission. See what I’m driving at? You referred me to Paul Washer, who I gather is a Calvinist-Baptist minister – again I’ve been really busy. So I would suspect his teaching is much along the lines of Charles Spurgeon, If you’ve never read Spurgeon, you’ve missed out – they don’t call him the Prince of Preachers for nothing. But Paul is probably a great guy. I had half a notion to try to get hold of him and see what he thought of this thread. (I’m also thinking of having to chip in for some of Lloyd’s bandwidth!) Yet when I googled him, along with his site & Wikipedia entry, the usual mess came up when you google about any very public minister – He’s a heretic, he preaches the devil’s gospel, all that… malarkey. Hideous angry geocities sites with the bold print and the trails of exclamation marks and underlines and the animated rainbow gif dividers. I took a minute to look at one that accused him of the very thing you are militating against here – that one (David) could have gross, horrendous sin in his life and still be a “Christian”. He murdered one of his closest friends after getting Uriah’s wife pregnant while Uriah was in the field fighting for Israel (where David should have been, leading his army). Sweet guy.

    So let’s take your grandfather. Did he get sloppy falling-down drunk or just have a shot or two, or where on that spectrum was he? Do you really think that, if he had a couple of shots to calm his nerves or help him sleep better, like taking a sleeping pill, that Jesus kicks him into the pit?

    For some contrast, my grandfather was a drunk. He beat his sons and wife, may have molested my mother, definitely molested my sister and I, and in one rage pulled my pregnant grandmother off a ladder causing her to fall, have a miscarriage, and killed my mother’s only (unborn) sister that she misses to this day – she turns 90 in August.

    One thing you must know, if you listen or read anything by a Calvinist, is that we can do NOTHING to save ourselves. Jesus Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe. Now He’s not the end of the law; He’s the end of the law as my measure to get into heaven. The Hebrews told Joshua, “All that the LORD commands us, we will do” and you can almost hear Joshua’s desperation; “You cannot do this! He is a jealous God, He will not forgive you – if you forsake Him he will destroy you.” (Joshua 24:19 etc.) This is what happens when we puff up our little chests and imagine that such pitiful creatures as us can earn our righteousness. You can see how well that worked out for the Hebrews. Yet you tell me that is what I must do, and even you come up short. It’s not 99.9%. It’s 100%. And that is impossible. A different Paul wrote a letter to the Galatians on the subject.

    Now what happens when Jesus begins to teach? We start in Matthew with the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus bears down HARD on the law, much harder than the Pharisees had with their outward appearances etc, Why? To drive us to Himself, to show us how desperately lost we are, that the deeds spring from the wicked heart. And then the tone changes, as He explains how our Father cares for us – wait, our what? The very first thing that Jesus tells us to do in prayer is address the One who spoke this incredible universe into existence, with power we can’t begin to fathom, as “Father” even “Daddy” or “Papa” in other places – “Abba”. I don’t think we think about this enough – that God was in Christ, reconciling Himself to the world. This is the Good News: That we rejected the Holy One, we were not only lost but largely in open rebellion – ever see a 2 year old say “NO!” ? Look in Romans 1 and find in that hideous list “disobedient to parents’. Yes, we are born sinners, through and through – but the Triune God said “I will take it upon myself to fix this. I will do what it takes to mend this relationship, I will remove all the barriers on my end and invite them to life, love, eternal happiness with Me. I love them.” And Christ came. And He did it. And he promised never to leave us or forsake us. All who are weary, come to the God who loves better than any earthly father could. He has promised to conform me to the image of His Son, oh glory I get to be like Jesus! Free, truly free of everything that hinders communion with God or my neighbor! All I have to do is believe, and of course I don’t mean a flippant “ok cool” belief like you just heard something on TV about distant matters, but a belief commensurate with the matters at hand; but let’s not get into that right now. The Gospel, the Good News, is that God loves you, really loves you, passionately loves you; and will freely give you eternal life, eternal communion with Him (which is ecstatic joy) and all the saints simply for the asking. He is our loving Father, we his beloved children.

    Embracing such a gift you would think is a no-brainer, and living a life of gratitude for it should be an opportunity, not a burden. Maybe we as Church have made the Gift appear quite unattractive. But even without that, man wants to earn his sonship – it’s like you went to your Dad and asked him what you have to do in order to be his son.

    Now I don’t want you to think I’m a universalist – unfortunately there are some who will shake their fist at the White Throne itself. But what of us who believe? Can you honestly say you are following Christ with 99.9% of your life? Do you realize how far even the best of us are from the glory of God? None of us will be 100% conformed to the image of Christ this side of Heaven. None of us will be free from error, or entirely free from sin.

    And I don’t want you to think I’m “easy on sin”. Error must be confronted, in love, with charity- iron will sharpen iron. But there is a difference between correcting a brother in love and condemning him to Hell for his errors. That is a distinction made in Scripture; Jesus talked about the second at the end of the Sermon on the Mount when he warned us that engaging in that would cause us to be measured by the same measure. But Paul exhorts us to “judge righteous judgement” amongst ourselves. But it must be done in love, with trust, and with respect, to build on another up.

    We are the Body of Christ. We are the ONLY hope. As Rich once said, ” the scary thing about God is, there is no Plan B”. But He has promised us His presence, His Spirit, His life. He has told us that out of us will flow rivers of living water- as we gaze on the magnificence of Jesus in the Scriptures the Spirit transforms us to be more like him and it’s less about what we don’t do (drink, chew, or go with girls that do) – that just falls away – and more about being that Good News to everyone, the life of God flowing from us, reaching down, lifting the lost from the pit, reaching, searching – we are soldiers of love, if the love can’t get in one way we will change tactics and try another, and even a cup of cold water given to another will be noticed, and my Father will pat my head and tossle my hair and say “Good one, son!”

  86. Hello Tom – Sorry I did not read any further past the part where you said this….”It really disturbs me that you, as a Christian, can come on here telling us who ISN’T “going to heaven”. Do you READ the bible Tom? The bible says too many passages on this to list but how hard is it for you to understand?

    1 Corinthians Chapter 6
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Again, I DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE. I just know it is true. That is the entire point in believing in Jesus Christ and having OBEDIENT faith while most all christians just believe and have faith. If I only had faith I would more than likely get drunk also, do drugs, have sexual sin, etc., like most all christians. Thank you Jesus Christ for telling us these things and so honestly.

    Any fool should know that I want EVERYONE to go to heaven and I am not the judge, but if the bible says a murderer goes to hell and someone I know murders than I would have to guess they go to hell. If someone I know is an alcoholic and then the same would apply unfortunately unless they stop the sin and repent and are saved before dying.

    I help all kinds of people by telling them the truth and many listen because I don’t sugar coat it like most pastors and churches and so called christians. Actually most all pastors and churches and christians don’t say anything at all because they feel love is not telling someone they are headed to hell if they keep doing what they do. I owe my live to Paul Washer and Jesus Christ himself for telling me the truth.

    Neither one sugar coated it or tried to make me feel good for my sins that were sending me to hell. The right kind of righteous fear is a blessing and the wrong kind of Mister Rogers coddling love like everyone is perfect the way they are can send you to hell. Yes, Mister Rogers said this all the time and I am using him as an example since many pastors use this similar type of false Gospel type approach.

    Are you going to put me down for saving people’s earthly lives and having these people be saved now so they can inherit the Kingdom of God? Wow…you all are so angry for me just pointing out what Jesus Christ wants us to do. Jesus will judge and I did not write the bible. I just know it is true.

    Much love, but seriously….nothing you say makes any sense. Again, feel free to attack the bible and the truth while you attack me. However, I stop reading after the first two sentences because you started out with lies again. Anyone knows i am not the judge, Jesus is the judge. However, he tells us who will go in many cases and we have to believe that or no one would ever help others who struggle with those sins that will lead them to hell.
    Praise the true Jesus Christ…the one in the bible and the true Gospel and not a false one.

  87. For crying out loud, Corbin, again you fail to engage. If you’d had the decency and politeness to read what I took very valuable time to write, re-reading and composing prayerfully, because I do care, you could tell that I know my scripture very well. And as well I studied exposition from good reformed theologians, the history of the church, even Calvin’s Institutes and early church writers. I attend a weekly study with very good men. I love the scriptures and can go right through the TULIP with you if you’d like. I did this in part because people used twisted Scripture and religion to manipulate an attempt to control me and my wife. I’ve seen all sorts of whacked things calling itself Christianity. But the Scriptures rise above it all as immutable and true, the one physical thing I can hold in my hand and know that it is God breathed.

    And I read your posts, every word. Please show me the same respect even if we disagree.

  88. Tom Cunningham – I read your entire message right now. I replied just now so hopefully if will come through. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply in detail. I appreciate that!

  89. Tom…the system won’t let me put anything in right now. Sorry…I have a reply that is 5 or so paragraphs…I will send it in the morning.
    Again, God Bless you for sending me that information and again, I read all of it and will read it again in the morning.

  90. Tom – I tried again and even putting it into two different messages, but the system won’t take it so I will try again in the morning. Again, I want Rich, my grandpa and all alcoholics, thieves, murderers, sexual sinners, etc., to go to heaven and be forgiven. I also would try and help all of these sinners above understand the seriousness of their sin if they were still alive..but I do this with those suffering from this sins today.

    Unfortunately, the bible says what happens to all these specific kind of sinners above if they don’t stop sinning, turn away from sin, repent, and are saved by obeying and following Jesus Christ.

    The bible teaches us to to do specific things like, call out all evil, call out sinners in truth so they can stop these things, to not be equally yoked with sinners, and the bible specifically calls out certain sinners as ones who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Therefore, it does not matter if you are nice alcoholic or mean one, you are still an alcoholic and all drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
    Also, nice sexual sinners, nice murderers, nice thieves, etc. don’t get free pass to heaven compared to mean ones either.
    If a true follower does not believe Jesus’s teachings in the bible are true…than you are not a true follower.
    Most people who are border-line sexual sinners, alcoholics, etc. have other sins also…but I am just pointing those out since the bible makes those obvious grave sins and that is awesoe that Jesus is so open and honest and tells us about those.

    1 in 1000 people are truly saved most likely in this day and time. Therefore, of course people will be speaking nonsense and racism and tons of other sinful stuff if only 1 and 1000 are truly actually saved and true followers of the Most High. Yes, racism and all kinds of sins exist, but few can speak about it truthfully and not with lies mixed in.

    In Noah’s day only 8 survived and Sodom and Gomorrah only a few survived. I believe we are much worse than those back in the old days since we have so many more advantages to seek the Most High than they did.

    2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

  91. Tom Cunningham – The racism part was only included since I copied and pasted that to a lady earlier this week who focuses on racism all the time on her Christian YouTube channel as it relates to the true Israelites. Here is a video on only 1 out of 1000 saved. I believe this is true..if I had to take a guess. I am fine with anyone saying that I might not be saved either even though I know Jesus saved me, but that is fine for someone to say that. Especially since I know plenty of sexual sinners, alcoholics, drug users, etc. that save their saved and I don’t believe they are due to their fruits.

  92. Tom Cunningham

    I don’t believe, but rather I know this passage below and many others are true. Notice how the words “whoever does not OBEY the son” are below. Without obeying in Jesus and his teachings someone is not a true follower and saved. Most all christians have faith and believe, but they do not obey thus they are still in major sin and are not saved, but just believe they are saved. Jesus warns us of this when many will say Lord, Lord to him on judgement day.

    John 3:35-36
    35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

    What kind of God would tell us this? Do you really think Jesus is joking when he says this in many passages and this is just one?

    Matthew 18:8
    “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

  93. Tom Cunningham

    Forget about Paul Washer…since I only serve Jesus Christ and not any man on earth, but i do respect Paul Washer for his Gospel message alone. It does not matter who I tell you about since you will attack them most likely just like you attack the bible and true Gospel, but you have that right.

    This guy has the best 3 page summary of some of the key teachings of Jesus Christ. 99% of the population that calls themselves christians do not follow even 50% of these teachings backed up by scriptures.

  94. This system won’t allow me to put in the link to his website for some reason. However, his key teachings are wonderful and his videos are spot on accurate with the scriptures. His videos are on YouTube also.
    I am not going to type 800 pages to tell you the true Gospel here. If you want to know it then you can read his teachings and watch his videos on the Gospel since you seem to hate Paul Washer before you even know anything about him.

  95. Tom Cunningham
    Lastly…here is the second part of my email. Last one;)
    Lastly, most everyone underestimates the power and destruction of their sin, lack of obedience and influence of the god of this world which is Satan which deceives almost everyone..and that is why the path is narrow and few will find it. Therefore, most everyone underestimates the obedience Jesus requires from his true followers and the true Gospel which is rarely ever preached or learned.

    Are any of us allowed to believe Jesus requires more of us and wants us to obey all of his commands and not just SOME of his commands? Yes.

    Are you allowed to believe in a Jesus who does not require anything but for us to believe and have faith in him since Jesus just loves to give us grace and more grace as we live in sins that he even says will send us to hell? Yes.

    However, I believe you MUST have obedient faith because the scriptures tell us this all over the place while you just believe we need to believe and have faith essentially.

    Unfortunately, I can’t stop you, but you are so wrong.

    Praise Jesus Christ and thank you Jesus for telling us like it is and warning us….that is the good news to tell others the truth and warn them before it is too late. Again, I want all to be in heaven, but believing all drunks, all murders, all sexual sinners, etc. will all go to heaven is absurd and a total lie that will send me to hell.

    Lastly, you did mention that we essentially have no power and Jesus is the only one who deserves credit and saves us. Yes, that is true and Jesus saved me from my sins by giving me grace and the Holy Spirit to not be a slave to my major sins anymore that would lead me to hell, like the love of money, sexual sin (girlfriend and fornication), etc. Therefore, the Jesus in the scriptures that says…go and sin no more…and he even said go and sin no more or it will worse the next time…saved me from my sins.

    I would be headed to hell if I would still love money, love fornication, etc. and you don’t even have to love your sin you just have to be in those sins and they will lead you to hell.

    Drunkards are one of those sins that Jesus says will not inherit the Kingdom of God which is saying they will go to hell. Same thing. No where in the bible does it says that grandpas or christians singers who are drunkards don’t go to hell because they are loved more than othes who don’t have that talent or are grandpas. Again, I want all drunkards to be in heaven, but come on…the bible is not a book of lies so we have to accept it as truth or you follow a different god. If people believe all these sinners go to heaven than that will do a number of things.
    1. They will think they can have somewhat similar sins and avoid hell.
    2. They won’t speak up to those in sin to help save them since Jesus just forgives everyone even though he tells us few will find the narrow road and that sinners will perish in their sins and certains ones if they are truly not saved.
    And much more…brief explanation.

    God Bless!

  96. Lloyd, I’m so grateful to have met you. For whatever reason, I needed to read this blog post tonight. Humbling. I love the way that you write, brother. Meeting you has enriched my life. See you Soon!

  97. Kyle, I’m grateful to have met you too. I’m glad you enjoyed the post. Looking forward to seeing you again soon.

  98. I am a huge follower of Christ and of Rich’s sharing and music. I discovered him really by the DVD about his life but after so much listening to many of his concerts and music on line, I am grieved by the movie. It was as if the people responsible were trying to paint him in a terrible light. So sad to see him so uncovered because His life was hid in Christ, as we all are, who are trusting what He did to save us. I never saw him disheveled as he was portrayed and all the addiction stuff and neediness and weakness expressed, was totally uncalled for. I wish someone would make the redemption story for us all to rejoice in, not to wallow in the dirt with him. His life was so amazingly one of God’s mercy, love and being a trophy of grace. He deserved respect and honor for a life worth lived, all for Jesus. Guess someone missed his Brother’s Keeper song. So very sad, Valerie

    1. Valerie, All I can do is ask, Did you even read the post? I thought I covered all that stuff. Anyway, thanks for reading.

      1. You know, my good man, I had to go up a re-read your post, and of course you are correct! It’s been so long I forgot about the actual content of the post! Very well, done, I might add, and as you said you and your family had a LOT of input into it. So my reply below is flawed in asking for David to show up – you’ve said everything above. My apologies.

  99. Valerie,

    It’s one of those rare blessings to think on that – our lives are hid in Christ! Thank you for that reminder; what an amazing thing it is to be able to say to “Papa” to that incredible, splendid, holy Power that created this universe of incredible complexity and scale simply by His word! As David said, “What is man that You are mindful of him? Yet You have made him a little lower than the angels, and crowned him with glory and honor.”

    You know, I am a sinner, saved by a marvelous and violent grace, the “Heavenly 2×4 treatment upside the head”. My sins wear on the people that know of them, even if they haven’t experienced them first-hand; all they have to know is that, at one time, I was a so-and-so. It’s a burden for them to carry, I hate it.

    And I suppose Rich might feel the same way, possibly, except now he’s ‘way too joyous! But his brother David, a minister of the gospel, had a LOT of input and oversight of the film, and for some reason thought this needed to be told. I’d be interested in his thoughts on your post as well. Both my and my wife’s families had alcohol, abuse and religion issues, some of the same family dynamics and patterns I see in the movie.

    Maybe, in some ways it’s important for us to realize that Contemporary Christian Music isn’t all polished teeth and great hair, bright lights and slick performances and red carpet welcomes. Rich is undoubtedly one the the brightest, if not THE brightest lights that ever came out of that wondrous time – and yet those bright flashes of lyrical insight and musical genius came out of dark struggles. As well, he saw the industry from the inside, and he didn’t like what he saw.

    I miss not only him, but that level of insight and lyrical/musical talent that just makes your heart soar – I go to church and hear this “worship culture” stuff and unfortunately it’s usually like eating grits with neither sugar and milk nor butter, salt and pepper – just flat either way. But go back to some of the giants of the end of the last millennium – Don Francisco, Kieth Green, Micheal Card, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Smitty, Amy Grant, Toby Mac & DC Talk, and especially Rich- oh, those songs, oh the joy of the Gospel!

    So I hope this helps. Blessings to you.

  100. This post spoke to something I have wrestled with personally. I’m afraid as I enjoy (and that is oh so insignificant of a word to describe the reality) and am challenged by, and connect with the music of Rich Mullins that I am really connecting more with Rich than with the Savior he loved and pointed us to. And yet I know that even in the struggle, both are true… that is am connecting to Rich as he helps to connect me to the Lord. And in the struggle I am no different than Rich and a world of other Ragamuffins. In fact in some small way I am similar to a struggling Savior who sweat drops of blood in a garden saying “Not my will but yours be done.” Or a struggling saint who in Romans 7 says he does what he hates and does not do that which he desires to do. There is truly nothing new under the sun.

  101. Hey, thanks for writing a great (and insightful) post. I was just discussing this exact thing with my fiance (and about his fiance) and was doing some digital online searching when I found this. I’m glad I took the time to read it. Like another commentor shared you and Rich have a simple and relatable writing technique that I enjoy.

    On the subject of how people (maybe not on purpose) idolize him and how you get more blog views when the subject is about him I found myself wondering: is this, to some minuscule extent, how Jesus’ siblings felt about him?

    Mary: Simone! Why can’t you be more like your brother Jesus!?

    Simone: Oh…God…I don’t know mom YOU TELL ME! YOU TELL ME WHY I WASN’T IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED AND CAN DO NO WRONG.

    Mary: I’m sorry. Sometimes I forget we’re *all* human.

    Simone: well apparently my big brother ain’t *all* human…(grumble grumble)

    Again, thanks for sharing. I enjoyed it.

  102. Kevin, I believe you have hit on something very important in your study of the Scriptures, something I try to emphasize to people – That the events of Scripture happened to ordinary people just like us! They weren’t stupid brutes, nor were they Raphal-esque romantics falling about in a holy swoon of some sort; they didn’t talk like Charlton Heston as Moses (or in Elizabethan English, either). Rich’s song “Boy Like Me, Man Like You” reminds us of that. I like to think about things like this at Easter, especially – about hardened guards who were so utterly terrified at the sight of the angel that they passed out cold, or about the tenderness of Jesus as he carefully revealed himself to Mary Magdalene at the tomb – in her condition, it’s a small wonder SHE didn’t pass out! And Mary – imagine being her at that moment. You’re exhausted; from the crucifixion, caring for everyone else, for getting the spices and marking the grave location. You don’t have time to grieve. You walk out Easter morning with the other women, bolt back to tell Peter & John, run back to the tomb – now you’re alone and confused and it’s your turn to cry, and the agonized sobs just pour out of you. Who hasn’t been touched by death’s grief? She doesn’t recognize angels, she glances and averts her ear-blurred eyes when Jesus approaches. And then He speaks her name, and the entire universe pivots around the first revelation of the risen Savior to the saved. In a stunned, surreal moment the deepest grief becomes the highest joy; and the world will never, ever be the same.

    Happy Easter all!

  103. Mr Mullins, thank you so much for your insightful comments. I do have a question for you. Was your brother Richard ever formally diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome? I am a mental health counselor, and although I would never presume to diagnose someone I have not met, from everything that I read about him, I am almost certain that your brother had Asperger Syndrome or some type of high functioning autism.

    Asperger’s is a development disability which causes a person to be socially awkward and have an all-absorbing interest or obsession in specific topics, among many other problems. It means, in layman’s terms, that their brain is wired differently, and they see and experience the world in a completely different way than most people. There is no cure, since it is not a disease, but there are therapies and Asperger’s support systems in place today which were not yet available in the 1990’s or earlier. If no one recognizes their disability, persons with Asperger’s are usually ostracized and misunderstood and they may become severely depressed. Autism and Asperger’s can run in families. I have two close relatives on the autism spectrum, so I have become very aware of the daily issues and challenges that they face. Over stimulation and angry verbal outbursts are very common. In addition, persons with Asperger’s seem to have no filter and often make inappropriate comments to others. They are physically clumsy, they tend to be reckless drivers and they do not recognize nonverbal social cues.

    The following website provides a lot of detail about Asperger Syndrome and the type of behavior that you often see in persons with high functioning autism. I think you will recognize a lot of your brother’s behaviors as being typical of this condition.

    https://www.theneurotypical.com/how-to-spot-aspergers.html

    I am aware that Rich Mullins suffered from addictions and possibly bi-polar disorder but I don’t think that is the full story. I truly hope that any future movies or biographies of Rich will take into consideration the very strong possibility that his personality, most of his odd or eccentric behaviors and even his musical genius are probably consequences of having some type of autism or Asperger syndrome.

    I hope that this information can give some perspective to the live and legacy (and seemingly dual personality) of Richard Wayne Mullins.

    1. Hi Therese. Interesting thought. However, I’ve known a few people with Aspberger’s and I feel like I can safely say that he didn’t have either that or bi-polar syndrome (or, if he did, so does pretty much everyone else in our family). I also don’t believe he was an alcoholic. I think he frequently drank too much, and didn’t necessarily handle booze well, but that’s another family trait. I think what he had was high intelligence, independence of thought, a low tolerance for bullshit, and a tendency toward depression. That is largely based on what I know of him, and of everyone else in my family, including myself. I can see how someone could come to your conclusions based on the movie RAGAMUFFIN, but it was only a movie, and like any movie, it can only show a small part of the whole story. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, and thanks for reading. Take care.

    2. Therese, thanks for this insight. I come from a family where a lot of us have various kinds of neurodivergences, from ADHD to autism, and have been a fan of Rich’s music since attending a concert in 1996. (In fact, you could say his music and life is one of my “special interests,” LOL — I think it’s because I felt seen and heard in his lyrics and words.) It’s been about 10 years since I read about his life, and now that I come back to the topic in 2021 having learned about neurodiversity in the meantime, I’ve been thinking about how his traits seem to make him part of the neurodivergent “tribe,” whether via ADHD or perhaps being somewhere on the autism spectrum. I imagine some readers may resist this notion due to limited understandings of what neurodiversity entails (as if everyone on the spectrum were Rain Man and everyone with ADHD were a 6-y.o. boy who won’t sit still). We neurodivergent folks are all very different and unique, and also with a lot of common traits that lead us to our creatively genius and eccentric minds. Of course we can’t diagnose another person, but it’s encouraging to see how his eccentricities are/were a gift to the world — as are those of all the rest of us quirky folks. I’ve been thinking this prior to seeing your post, so it was great to see someone else thinking on the same page. Blessings to you!

  104. Lloyd,
    I totally agree with your assessment of your brother Wayne. I didn’t know much about him ,other then singing some of the songs he had written in church before I just recently saw the movie . It just seemed somewhat inaccurate ,especially after I viewed many of his concerts but more importantly the interviews he had. I think he was extremely honest talked about his struggles really didn’t try to hide . anything especially during concerts depression is something I can understand. The life especially all the touring had to get pretty tiring after a while. At one concert he admitted being bored. However this did not keep God from using him. His intelligence was a special gift but at times seemed like a curse too. I have a son who goes through or has gone through many of the emotional struggles that your brother did. I feel it made your brother all the better in his quest to serve the Lord. He was in a sense a modern day disciple. I don’t believe as the movie portrayed he was always a falling down drunk or that he always was disheveled. He also said at one concert you don’t really know who I am you only see me for 45 minutes. He admitted that despite being surrounded by lots of people he still felt alone. My son is the same way. It’s depression the feeling that no one gets who you are. Alcohol can be a medication of sorts to help fend off some of the pain. He simply loved The Lord so much he tried to push through his pain with the Lord at his side. Many of the interviews he had the people interviewing him acknowledge he was the real deal. The more I have learned about him has helped me in understanding my own son and my Own walk with the Lord. He simply was an important person that impacted many people. God saw he was getting tired it was time to go home. Well done Richard my good and faithful servant.
    I agree no Asperger or Bipolar issues. Your brother simply was extremely gifted from God. I feel God is very selective in gifts he gives us.
    I think you also have been given the gift of a great communicator, so keep it up. Sorry for this lengthy response.God bless you and your family. Thank you to you and your wife for your service.
    Sandy

  105. Bro!
    I have been on all ends of the spectrum with the Rich Mullins thing. In my 20’s I was 100% fangirl! When I saw the movie I was disenchanted hugely, I even wrote to Mitch and asked WTH? I decided that since it wasn’t a Christian actor, he wasn’t able to capture Rich Mullins’ whimsey and such. I could accept that he had an edge and that he had a temper. I just didn’t think the actor fluidly married that with his whimsical and compassionate sides. Nonetheless, watching some additional footage of the band that were his college friends, and of you and his sisters talking about him, I’ve come to the happy middle ground I think. Of course, I’m a little old to be a fangirl now (I’m 50)!
    Thank you for writing all this. I think it is important for people to keep perspective about big Christian stars. Especially now, they are packaged more than ever (and the music has really declined, I must say–)

    A sister,
    Jodi

  106. Lloyd,

    You have made a number of very positive comments about your mother Neva and you have even called her a saint on a couple of occasions. Could you please tell us more about her? What was her relationship like with you, Rich and the rest of your siblings?

    Blessings,
    Therese

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